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Fort Elder Scrolls • View topic - Merry Christmas MkII
Page 2 of 2

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:26 pm
by Toccatta
By request, I'm also including an early alpha version that has been updated to TR version 15.12 for anyone using the most recently released TR files.

- attachment lost due to server error -

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:31 pm
by Toccatta
And now, due to the recent release of TR v16.08, here is yet another version of the MC 3.0 alpha

MC3 Early Alpha for TR 16.08.zip
(25.58 MiB) Downloaded 640 times

Fliggerty has found and corrected the error which was preventing me from replacing the lost attachment, so once again we have the 16.08 version available for download.
Thanks, Fliggerty!

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:18 pm
by kloppix
Hi. This is not necro-posting but ancient post worship, which I hope is tolerated. ;)

Do you have a newer version? I tried to use the Tamriel_Data patcher to make MC3 compatible with Tamriel Rebuilt 16.12. It works, but the lag in cities is unbearable.

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:39 am
by Drac

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:38 am
by kloppix
Wow, the version 17.09 is out already. I see what you mean.

I don’t think MC3 causes the lag, but using Tamriel_Data patcher on it. Moreover, I’m using OpenMW and not even the last one (0.41). I won’t worry about it ;)

I‘m sorry Drac, but I’m a noob in mod creation. Can’t you just take the required files from TR and include it in MC? (After asking for permission, of course).

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:38 pm
by Toccatta
Unfortunately, no. The problem is the way the items created by the mod are stored by the mod internally. The construction set changes the very complicated internal numbering system into something more readable for the people making the mod, but those internal numbers are the source of serious problems.

A simple example: On one side of the map is a small hut with a fireplace and three logs. The logs are statics and unusable. Morrowind Crafting 3 mod deletes those three logs and replaces them with miscellaneous objects that the player can pick up and use. What happens internally is that MC3 mod tells the game engine to delete object #88721518761873518765, #88721518761873518784, and #88721518761873518791 and add object #52914804924780191215, #52914804924780191221, and #52914804924780191225. As long as TR_Mainland.esm is the same as it was when MC3 was made, this works fine.

However, the moment the TR team creates a new version, all the object numbers of EVERYTHING in their mod get recalculated by the construction set and re-written. Unfortunately, now, object #88721518761873518765 is no longer a static log in a crafter's hut in one section of the mainland, but the door to a merchant's shop in some other city, #88721518761873518784 is a bookshelf in his shop, and #88721518761873518791 is a section of floor/wall/ceiling in one if his storerooms.

When you load MC3 with the new version of TR_Mainland.esm, it will still try to carry out those same instructions, except instead of deleting a static version of three logs and replacing them with ones the player can pick up, it deletes three completely unrelated items elsewhere in the game. Now, if you go into the crafter's hut, you can't pick up the logs because the statics are still there interfering with the process (they have new numbers since the TR team rebuilt TR_Mainland.esm) and if you enter the merchant's shop, you'll find some of his wares floating where the bookshelf used to be, there is a black void leading into empty space where one of his walls used to be, and you can no longer leave, since the inside door is gone!

Of course, all those numbers and objects are hypothetical, but hopefully it illustrates the type of problem we're dealing with. It isn't as simple as just including files from TR so that everything still works. It means having to repair the MC3 mod every time anything in TR_mainland changes, no matter how big or small that change might be... and the TR team's changing all the internal reference IDs for the sake of consistency with a couple of other mainland projects just adds another layer of complexity to an already frustrating situation.

No, unfortunately this isn't something that can be so easily resolved. I wish it were.

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:54 pm
by kloppix
Thank you for your extensive response, Tocatta. It was very informative. I hope OpenMW can help to solve issues like this in the future. Mark and Recall to Vvanrdenfell until then.

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:13 pm
by Jasons073
*mutters necromancy incantation*

Wouldn't revive an old thread without a good reason :) Just wanted to let you know that there have been some further developments on helping mods "adapt" to TR's increasing rate of changes, mostly spearheaded by Abot. Abot's website contains the tutorial for the process:

http://abitoftaste.altervista.org/morro ... ers-change

Not sure how feasible this would be for something as big and intricate as MC3, but wanted to share nonetheless.

Hope all is well!

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:18 am
by Saika96
* Necromancers Unite *

Hello,
Sorry for bothering, but the link on MMH is dead and the way back machine doesn't help either...
Can anybody post the 2.1 version of the mod?

Re: Merry Christmas MkII

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:28 am
by Toccatta
After looking around a bit, I managed to find this download link:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/modh ... ing_21.zip

Sorry for the difficulty, but I've been unable to attach copies of any file larger than a megabyte or so here, so I can't host it. I have no idea why MMH removed it, but if anyone asks, I did not request it to be removed. While trying to track down a valid download link, I was surprised to find myself described as "known to be a 'parlor' style mod author", which probably comes from my request in the v2.1 readme that meshes, textures, and scripts in MC2.1 should not be used in unrelated projects. I did, however, give blanket permission for their use in any project that was intended to be compatible with or build upon Morrowind Crafting, so I'm not sure why anyone would feel that I'm trying to keep a tight fist on the mod. My only concern was to not have someone mooch my hard work for something either completely unrelated to crafting or to enable someone to create a mod intended to REPLACE Morrowind Crafting.

Anyone wishing to make something that works WITH Morrowind Crafting; is simply Morrowind Crafting aware (e.g. which includes objects, creatures, or NPCs which can provide MC related raw materials); or which extends its abilities or areas of effect (e.g. into the mainland areas of Tamriel Rebuilt) has permission to use them in any way desired.

On the other hand, if you want to make a mod which has nothing to do with crafting, but you think the pottery wheel looks nice and you want to stick it into a building... either make one yourself, or have whoever owns the pottery wheel actually sell pottery AND CLAY. By making it MC aware, you have my blessing. If you just want to mooch... bugger off. If that makes me a "parlor" style mod author, so be it, but you don't have to come into my parlor to use it. You just have to respect the work I put into it. i.e. derivative works of any sort are fine, blatant plagiarizing is not.

Also, as stated in the Morrowind Crafting Readme, I have no problem with this mod being hosted anywhere, provided that the host makes no claims of ownership or intellectual property rights on the mod by virtue of hosting it. That is to say, any mod hosting site which has a policy of "all your mod are belong to us" is somewhere that may NOT host MC Crafting. Anywhere else is just fine.